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During a revealing 90-minute episode of their podcast, Conversations with Kath, released on Wednesday, the 27-year-old who identifies as non-binary and uses they/them pronouns, opened up about their breakup with Siwa. They recounted the pivotal moment when they decided to part ways at the wrap party for Celebrity Big Brother UK, following Siwa’s participation in the reality series, shedding light on the intense emotions involved in that decision.

Ebbs first disclosed their breakup in a now-deleted TikTok video shared on April 26, stating that Siwa initiated the split during the CBB UK wrap event. The separation ignited speculation that Siwa’s close friendship with Love Island star Chris Hughes may have contributed to the downfall of their relationship, prompting discussions on social media about the nature of their bond.

On their podcast, Ebbs reflected emotionally on the public nature of their breakup. They shared their thoughts on the relationship between Hughes and Siwa, addressed allegations of grooming, and discussed the emotional toll of sudden notoriety. This deep dive into their feelings offers insight into the complexities of navigating a breakup under the scrutiny of the public eye.

Ebbs revealed that they felt a strong reluctance to attend the wrap party, admitting they experienced a significant emotional breakdown after seeing a clip of Siwa and Hughes in bed together. This moment was particularly painful as they were also dealing with the grief of a close friend’s anniversary of passing. Despite their struggles, their family encouraged them to attend the CBB UK wrap event, although they ultimately chose not to appear in the finale episode, highlighting the emotional complexity of the situation.

Ebbs then recounted their emotional reunion with Siwa after her time in the house, which was filled with a mix of joy and confusion.

“As soon as she was off camera, the welfare team took her straight to the room I was in, as I watched it unfold on TV, but I was just in a room,” they recalled. “We hugged and exclaimed, ‘Oh my God, hello…’” This moment was filled with affection but also heavy with the weight of their relationship’s complexities.

“We embraced, kissed, and held each other for what felt like an eternity. I believe I was crying,” Ebbs continued. “At one point, I asked, ‘Are we good like this?’ and she replied, ‘Yeah.’ I felt a wave of relief wash over me, but it was clear she was quite overwhelmed after the chaotic experience she had just endured.”

According to Ebbs, the welfare team was relaying their feelings to Siwa, including their hesitation about attending the after-party and their disinterest in meeting Hughes. This communication highlights the emotional distance that had begun to grow between them.

Ebbs recalled discussing with Siwa whether they would attend the after-party, admitting they could sense something was off and felt “funny.” They shared their memories of that now-infamous after-party, noting that their dad had encouraged them to go, reflecting the ongoing pressures they faced from family and public expectations.

“I entered the party with the mindset of ‘Let’s celebrate,’ but she had this shocked expression on her face,” they recalled, emphasizing the stark contrast between their initial excitement and Siwa’s distress.

“She looked surprised, not in a good way, as if something was troubling her. I approached her immediately and asked, ‘Are you okay?’ She responded, ‘No, no, no.’… So, she took a seat,” they continued. “I sat down beside her and asked, ‘What’s going on, babe? What’s wrong?’ It was at that moment she began to break up with me, and the gravity of the situation hit me hard.”

“I was sitting there, feeling incredibly anxious and utterly devastated by the unfolding events,” they added. “It was overwhelming, and I was in a state of shock as I attempted to process what was happening.”

Ebbs continued, “The conversation felt like it lasted forever, and I honestly lost track of time. By the time someone came in, we had to leave. It was challenging because I kept trying to suggest to her, ‘Let’s take a moment to breathe,’ not because I wanted to save the relationship. Every individual has the right to end things whenever they choose. Unfortunately, that’s a sad reality of life.”

Ebbs noted that Siwa was unaware of the emotional struggles they faced while she was in the Celebrity Big Brother UK house, which added to the complexity of their relationship dynamics.

“But I was aware that she had no idea what I had been experiencing outside. She had no understanding of my struggles, and I felt the need to express that. I asked her, ‘Can you please give this some time? Because you don’t know what’s been happening or how I’ve been feeling,’” they explained, highlighting the disconnect that had formed between them.

“During our conversation, she brought up various issues, such as the letter I wrote and my absence from the live show, claiming these factors contributed to her decision,” Ebbs added. “I tried to emphasize to her, ‘Babe, there’s so much context to this situation. You need to understand the full picture.’”

They mentioned that they confronted the cheating allegations directly, which had been swirling around since the breakup.

“At one point, I said, ‘Babe, there’s actually a rumor online that you’ve been cheating on me on national television,’ … she kind of implied that her reasons for breaking up with me were already in place before these other factors came into play,” Ebbs said, shedding light on the accusations surrounding their relationship.

For her part, Siwa previously stated during an appearance on the The Viall Files podcast that the issues in her relationship with Ebbs began surfacing long before her time on Celebrity Big Brother UK, suggesting deeper underlying tensions.

On their podcast, Ebbs candidly expressed their thoughts regarding Siwa’s close friendship with Chris Hughes. While they emphasized that they perceive the relationship as “platonic,” they expressed concerns that their interactions might have crossed boundaries and gone “too far,” which contributed to their feelings of unease.

“I never looked at those two and thought, ‘They’re going to run off into the sunset together,’” they clarified. “However, I felt it was an unusual platonic relationship that had crossed numerous boundaries for me. I never genuinely believed they would elope.”

“Even when she made that remark to me at the after-party, I didn’t have the thought, ‘Oh, it’s because of Chris,’” they continued. “What it indicated to me was that their interactions weren’t entirely platonic. I’m sure it is now, but I don’t have direct communication with either of them to confirm that.”

“But I believe what this hinted to me, and I felt the same way even when she was in there, was that if you have even a split-second thought of ‘Ooh, is it?’ then it shows these interactions weren’t completely innocent,” Ebbs added, expressing their discomfort regarding the dynamics at play.

In a different segment of the podcast, Ebbs addressed the controversy surrounding the video they shared, wherein they revealed their breakup with Siwa.

After mentioning that they had an extensive five-hour conversation following the wrap event, Ebbs disclosed that they obtained Siwa’s permission to publicly announce their breakup on social media.

“I don’t mind if you say we’ve broken up. That’s your journey; do what you need to do,” Ebbs recounted Siwa saying, demonstrating the complexity of their communication.

Despite claiming to have received approval to post on social media, Ebbs mentioned that Siwa later reached out to express that Hughes was “upset” about the video.

“JoJo texted me, saying Chris was upset, and she claimed that I had dragged Chris into it, which I found somewhat amusing,” Ebbs recalled, explaining their decision to ultimately delete the video. “It’s like, ‘Chris brought himself into this when he referred to you as his girlfriend on a show and said he would kiss you. But that’s okay.’”

Ebbs further elaborated on Siwa’s alleged response, calling it hurtful and indicative of the emotional turmoil they were experiencing.

“I said, ‘You could have just dumped me, and that’s your first text. I’m pretty hurt by that,’” they shared. “Siwa replied, ‘You’re implying that I left you for Chris,’ and I clarified, ‘I’m truly sorry if I made it seem that way. My intention was to validate my feelings based on what I experienced and how I felt from you.’”

According to Ebbs, Siwa—who previously identified as a lesbian but came out as queer during filming—reiterated her stance that her friendship with Hughes was strictly platonic.

“She kept insisting, ‘Chris and I are just friends, Chris and I are just friends,’” Ebbs stated. “I said, ‘That’s news to me,’ highlighting the lack of communication in their relationship.”

Ebbs expressed that they conveyed to Siwa their understanding of her friendship with Hughes, but acknowledged they were not aware of its significance until that moment, which contributed to their feelings of betrayal.

Ebbs recalled sharing with Siwa, “Chris, in your mind, is not part of your story for why you are not with me; he is part of mine, and that’s because of the way both of you acted, but especially him.” They emphasized that if Hughes does not want to take responsibility for his actions, that is on him, reiterating their feelings of being wronged. “I didn’t initiate this,” they stated, emphasizing their innocence in the situation.

As to why they ultimately decided to take down their video, Ebbs claimed that Siwa told them she wouldn’t come over to talk unless they did first, showcasing the ongoing strain in their communication.

They went on to reflect on their final conversation with Siwa, which held significant emotional weight for both of them.

“I felt truly understood by her during that time. I finally had the chance to express everything I had been feeling,” Ebbs said. “I told her all my feelings, everything I witnessed, how hard this was for me, and how I felt my boundaries had been crossed. It was painful knowing she did this while I was dealing with my own challenges, including my past trauma. I felt like she got me, and it was a moment of emotional connection where she also cried.”

Ebbs provided insight into their breakup, stating, “There were issues in our relationship she brought to my attention that I agreed with. I said, ‘Yes, sometimes when I’m feeling triggered and dealing with my own abandonment issues, I can show up as a really poor partner at times.’”

“And that’s my journey, and I agreed with her,” they added. “I acknowledged that she had every right to reflect on that and express her dissatisfaction because I recognized my own shortcomings at the time.”

Ebbs asserted that they and Siwa “came to an agreement” to keep her video up while Siwa would address the romantic speculation surrounding her and Hughes directly.

“She was doing a press run, and she said, ‘I’ll squash that. You keep your video up if it’s still causing a stir,’” Ebbs recalled. “I told her, ‘If it’s still a topic of conversation and people are speculating that you two are together, I’m happy to have another call in a week, and we can clarify things together.’”

“Then I texted her later that day to thank her for the conversation, and she exploded at me about re-uploading the video,” they continued. “I was so confused because I genuinely thought that was our plan. She kept bringing up Chris, and I kept saying, ‘Chris got himself involved before I ever made a video. He needs to take responsibility for that.’”

Ebbs concluded their thoughts on the video by stating, “[The way] you two acted like that in the house, it’s not on me,” they recalled expressing to their now-ex. “I ultimately deleted it, as I didn’t want to fight with her over this.”

However, Ebbs became emotional while recounting how Siwa was “mocking” them during her appearance on The Viall Files podcast, further illustrating the pain of their breakup.

Furthermore, throughout their podcast, Ebbs confronted the troubling claims that they had been “grooming” Siwa, who is 21, during their relationship due to the six-year age difference between them.

Ebbs revealed that they had experienced being “groomed by a teacher” from the ages of 18 to 20, which made the allegations regarding their relationship with Siwa particularly painful and distressing.

“Dealing with that negative online commentary has been incredibly challenging for me, as it creates a sense of invalidation for those who have genuinely been victims of grooming. It’s not something to take lightly,” they stated, emphasizing the serious nature of the allegations.

“Regarding the conversation around our age gap, we often see men like Leonardo DiCaprio, who notoriously dates women half their age and younger,” they pointed out, suggesting that societal norms are often biased based on gender.

Ebbs reflected on their split from Siwa during an interview with Betches, providing a deeper understanding of their emotional state following the breakup.

In the weeks following their breakup, Ebbs shared, “I’ve been feeling the most depressed I’ve been in six years, for real.”

“There were many moments in the past month where I considered disappearing when everything felt far too overwhelming,” they expressed. “The person who was once my support system has not only vanished but has turned against me, allowing this behavior to continue. Everyone is discussing me but not to me, which adds to the feeling of isolation.”

“I feel voiceless, which is a significant trigger for me due to past experiences,” they added. “People are labeling me with hurtful names and making assumptions about my character. When you’re in that position, it feels like it will never end.”

While Ebbs emphasized that they do not believe Siwa cheated, they expressed that their “boundaries were crossed in a way that felt like a betrayal of trust repeatedly around affection.”

“I believe she made a lapse in judgment, and I was clearly collateral damage in that situation, which was incredibly hurtful,” they explained. “However, I don’t believe she had any malicious intent during that interaction.”

Ultimately, however, Ebbs stated, “I feel like I’ve been a pawn moved around in this story by Big Brother, JoJo, her PR team, and the tabloids. I feel truly crushed by this because it’s not something I ever asked for. At the end of the day, the boring headline is: I’m just heartbroken, and I’ve gone through a messy breakup that I didn’t see coming, and I’m in shock as I pick up the pieces of my love life and my life overall.”

Meanwhile, Ebbs and the Betches reporter discussed how queer breakups often differ from heterosexual ones, highlighting unique emotional dynamics.

“It’s like when a man breaks up with you, you can sort of compartmentalize it and think, ‘Okay, okay, cool,’” Ebbs explained. “But when a woman does, it becomes so personal, and you end up feeling like, ‘Oh, I’m a terrible person.’ It’s a strange emotional burden to bear.”

They also noted that they believe their breakup from Siwa would not have received as much media attention if they were straight, suggesting that societal perceptions play a significant role in how relationships are viewed in the public eye.

“I’m telling you right now, if Chris Hughes had a girlfriend or was even casually seeing someone outside and behaved like that, I don’t know what kind of conversation we’d be having,” Ebbs stated. “I believe there’s a small percentage of the conversation influenced by either unconscious or conscious homophobia.”