‘Shōgun’ writers on saying goodbye to Mariko in ‘devastating’ episode 9

Can not get Shōgun‘s heartbreaking ninth episode, “Crimson Sky,” out of your head? Consider living with it for 5 years.

That is the case for Rachel Kondo and Caillin Puente, the two writers of the episode. (Kondo is also a co-creator and executive producer on the show Puente is a story editor and associate producer.) The pair had the duty of bringing the most pivotal sequence of James Clavell’s original novel to life, in which Toda Mariko (Anna Sawai) attempts to leave Osaka.

More than the course of the episode, Mariko engineers a diplomatic crisis, undermines Ishido Kazunari (Takehiro Hira), and threatens to commit seppuku, in spite of pleas not to from each John Blackthorne (Cosmo Jarvis) and Ochiba no Kata (Fumi Nikaido). Right after facing continual peril, Mariko is lastly permitted to return to Ajiro, only to sacrifice herself in a fatal explosion that exact same evening. It really is a wrenching, tragic send-off for 1 of Shōgun‘s central characters, and soon after years of discussing it with each other, Kondo and Puente knew this was the episode they wanted to create.

In a joint interview with Mashable, Kondo and Puente — who described themselves as “Mariko and Ochiba’s quantity 1 fans” — dug into why Mariko’s final days resonated so a great deal with them, how they constructed out her partnership with Ochiba, and the important part Sawai played in bringing Mariko to life. The following conversation has been edited and condensed for clarity.

Mashable: What was your initial reaction to reading Mariko’s gate sequence and this final arc of her story in the novel?

Rachel Kondo: That sequence felt really a great deal like an action sequence to me when I was reading it in the book. There is the exact same degree of tension there is pretty much the exact same pacing, but with words and refusals. How you capture that in a novel was so beyond my scope of capacity, perhaps, but I consider that the explanation why it stuck with me was that you comprehend, in hindsight, that the complete story hinges on this scene. It builds to this 1 moment of a lady walking by means of a gate.

The complete story hinges on this scene. It builds to this 1 moment of a lady walking by means of a gate.

Caillin Puente: [There’s a sense of] realizing how astounding this scene is, and this complete section of the story, but then also wanting to method it from a slightly diverse angle in terms of bringing Ochiba far more into it. This is a character who we hear a lot about by means of other people’s eyes, but we never get to see her, and in the novel, she did not have a private connection to Mariko.

Searching at that scene [in Osaka Castle], at the political theater that Mariko is undertaking and the diplomacy crisis she’s producing, it appears a bit out of Ishido’s handle. So we believed, “Who is capable of going toe-to-toe with Mariko in this fight of words?” And it was Ochiba. She has a good interaction with Mariko in that scene. Then we had been like, “How can we expand this? How can we develop on these characters’ relationships?”

RK: And how can we visualize the partnership among the two? As Caillin was saying, that partnership did not exist in the book, but we assumed that offered their rank, they almost certainly knew of every other, if not knew every other. That was 1 of the far more fascinating components of [writing for Shōgun] was to visualize what would have been.

1 of the motives I am so devastated by this episode is for the reason that it ebbs and flows in a way. You consider Mariko could die at the gate, and then she does not, and then you consider she could die by committing seppuku, and then she does not. But soon after Yabushige’s betrayal, you comprehend her death is inevitable. Stroll me by means of the procedure of constructing the episode and creating that tension.

CP: That is difficult. When you say that, it tends to make me consider of the moment soon after Mariko’s ready to commit suicide and then does not. You can really feel that for Mariko, it is the initial time that it is occurred to her that she could possibly survive this. She could possibly be capable to achieve her targets, no cost these hostages, honor her father, and come out alive. I really feel like these couple of scenes we get with her soon after that are seriously devastating, to see her visualize a diverse future for the initial time.

Mariko was constantly so set in her goal. She does not waver, even when she’s struggling with it. She knows what she’s signed up for. The way that Anna Sawai performs this scene exactly where she’s attempting to escape the castle, figuring out that she’s going to get all these people today killed — she does such an astounding job.

Anna Sawai in “Shōgun.”
Credit: Katie Yu / FX

RK: Anna was also laser-focused as she was undertaking this episode. We had been worried for her for the reason that it was so a great deal heaviness, and Anna as a particular person type of ceased and Mariko took more than. It created the celebration after she had wrapped all the sweeter, for the reason that Anna came back to us.

I consider it is worth mentioning that it was such a boon for us to be capable to shoot in order. I really feel like Anna as an actor and artist, and even us, as people today who had been attempting to portray her, we all got far better at understanding her. It all culminated in this 1 stretch. What she brought to the part [during the gate sequence] is the emotional price of steadfastness. You can see on her face the humanity and the discomfort and the brokenness, and you cannot visualize that as you happen to be writing.

Anna [Sawai’s] point of view on Mariko seriously evolved the character.

CP: Anna’s point of view on Mariko seriously evolved the character in the story in a way that I consider is seriously intriguing. I don’t forget getting this conversation with her exactly where we mapped out exactly where Mariko would be wearing her cross visibly above her garments. In specific scenes, we had this notion that she would tuck it inside of her kosode, like when she’s with Blackthorne and when they are getting this affair exactly where she’s naturally of two hearts. We had been pondering that she could place away this side of herself in specific enterprise, in particular for the reason that Christianity was a difficult point at that time. 

Then really early on, when we had been shooting the initial episodes, Anna approached us and mentioned, “I consider I would be wearing it all the time, even with Blackthorne, even with his hatred of Catholics.” And that tends to make fantastic sense with the final version of Mariko. I cannot visualize her hiding her cross now.

I’d adore to hear about her reaction to the episode 9 script. Had been there any other information that she added, like with the cross detail?

CP: I never don’t forget her initial reaction to reading it, for the reason that when she was cast, she got all of the scripts at after.

RK: The explanation we’re getting a difficult time coming up with particular examples is for the reason that she generally viewed as just about every line of hers and believed about no matter whether Mariko would say it. There was a scene in episode 1 exactly where she’s speaking to Fuji about releasing her youngster. We had written that in a way that she was chiding Tadayoshi in this really cutting manner. And Anna was like, “I consider she would be harsh, but not that harsh. She is nevertheless a lady of good grace and poise, and it does not really feel really Japanese to just slam Tadayoshi.” It created the scene far better to reduce down what ever harshness we had initially place in. 

CP: We talked a lot about the scene with Ochiba in [episode 9]. And I don’t forget Fumi was the 1 who asked to do the blocking the way they did, exactly where she pretty much eclipses Mariko and then is facing the opposite path. They have this conversation exactly where they are not seriously facing every other but you get to see each of them.

RK: Which nicely performs with the scene when they are girls seeking out for every other’s backs for the duration of education.

Fumi Nikaido and Anna Sawai in “Shōgun.”
Credit: Katie Yu / FX

I loved the poetry aspect of the partnership, in particular in episode 9. Ochiba asks Mariko for a beginning line for a poetry contest, and she says, “Whilst the snow remains veiled in the haze of cold evening, a leafless branch.” In the novel by James Clavell, the line is just “a leafless branch.” Inform me about expanding on that line and writing poetry for these two.

CP: That was intriguing, for the reason that a lot of the poetry was in fact coming either straight from the book or from our major historian, Professor Frederik Cryns, for the reason that that sort of poetry is so complicated and obtaining a poem to translate to be a particular matter for that time is seriously difficult. A lot of the time, he would come to us with historical references that we would adapt. If it was a line we seriously liked from the book that was vital like “a leafless branch,” he would tailor that a bit far more into the Japanese so the translation would operate. 

1 of my favourite [lines in Shōgun] in what Mariko says to Ochiba in the scene they have with each other, “Flowers are only flowers for the reason that they fall.” It really is an adaptation of Mariko’s true-life counterpart Hosokawa Gracia’s true death poem. We slightly butchered the translation, but that was the gist of the poem that we seriously, seriously liked. I don’t forget reading that at three a.m. when researching and getting so excited that this was a thing that we would get to use. It really is so fantastic for the character.

What had been some other techniques you brought Hosokawa Gracia’s true-life history to Mariko?

CP: There are pieces right here and there. For Mariko’s journals in episode four, when she’s taking notes about Blackthorne, we utilised Hosokawa Gracia’s true journals to mimic her handwriting. Junko Fuchioka, our calligrapher, and Frederik, who was assisting us translate all our historical documents into period feudal Japanese, had been utilizing her actual letters to get reference for how she would speak in her letters and what her writing would appear like.

There are also some crazy historical anecdotes about Hosokawa Gracia’s partnership with her husband, which we mirror with Buntaro. I consider our version is in fact a bit much less dramatic than the historical version, which is type of crazy.

RK: What was the story you told me? About the snake and the ogre and the bloody kosode?

CP: There was a lot of strife in their marriage when she converted to Christianity for the reason that it was becoming illegal to be a Christian in Japan and the Taikō was expelling Christians. It was a really difficult circumstance, but she was so higher ranking, she was technically permitted.

Her husband in fact introduced her to the notion of [Christianity] but then did not want her to be Christian. He blamed her ladies-in-waiting for encouraging her, and he ended up killing some of them and wiping his sword on her kosode. She refused to adjust and just wore this bloody garment for various days till he decided to apologize to her. Then she had this good line — all of this story is stuff of legend so I am positive it is not one hundred % precise — but he referred to as her a snake and she mentioned, “A snake is an proper wife for an ogre.”

All episodes of Shōgun are now streaming on Hulu.